Come on, downlines, RECRUIT! Be inspired by these numbers! Thank the Lord!
Build a team so her commission checks get even bigger. Cos that's how she gets paid. From you and your downline spending money on orders.
(As far as we're aware, you were never supposed to share commission income publicly. Distributors just kept getting in trouble for doing it. Message seems to have got through, finally.)
Can we please talk about how does anyone in this company actually make decent money?! This was posted by an American Ruby Crown Princess for 30 days of invoices — only 30 days — $1,319 ($908 + the pending $411) for 30 days 'hustling' is a two-week paycheck for me, at my full-time real job. And, as usual, she's not including her expenses in this humble brag post:
Even a crown princess makes a crap income from selling their own stock. If you do the math, she's only clearing maybe $500 dollars, if that (as she still needs to pay for the wholesale products, and pay SeneGence's expensive shipping and handling, and probably postage costs for shipping to her customers).
Sure, they make more at the top, but even then I have noticed a lot more training lately, because sales have dropped.
I have been selling for under a year, and 90% of my customer base prefers using Square ... so I'm assuming that this Princess's Square statement also represents the bulk of her income.
How are these people making decent incomes, even with her downline commission?!
I won't even mention the $4K of credit card debt I am now in, thanks to SeneGence ...
—Elizabeth
Much fun to be seen over here ... major divisions appearing within the devoted distributors.
Don't forget that Joni's husband donated $250,000 to Trump's inauguration fund. That had fallout too — some distributors quit in disgust as a result of that particular discovery. We realise it doesn't bother all, but it certainly does bother many.
Presumably a joke, but still a horrifying prospect ...
#MLM #SeneGence #LipSense #Trump #JoniRogersKante #antiMLMmovement
Oh the embarrassment ...
Things we've done as SeneGence distributors, that we are now ashamed of.
• “I helped hand out snacks at my husband's work Christmas party, with the sole goal of being able to talk to the younger women there about LipSense. And it clearly made them uncomfortable. But yet I persisted 😬. And felt so guilty afterwards.”
• “The most embarrassing thing was when I got caught up in buying things to grab people’s attention to ask about LipSense. Buying lipstick- or lip-themed everything and wearing stripes on my hand.”
• “I did a party at a friend's house, and forced myself to say give the 'SeneGence Choice' spiel (just buy stuff, sign up as a customer, or sign up as a distributor), and it felt so awkward.”
• ”Running a give-away at a party, to be drawn at the end of the month — solely to get people's contact details. I did give away a prize to one of them, and she was not chosen at random, but as someone who I thought was most likely to keep ordering from me, or to hold a party. She didn't.”
• Gone 'wowing' at the shopping mall, approached sales assistants and random women in the lifts and bathrooms, and showed off how the LipSense stripes on our hands don't smudge off. And tried to get their contact details.
• Sat through training sessions where the whole focus is on recruiting, and nodded at the trainer, and wrote down notes, promising to try harder.
• Ordered hundreds of dollars of LipSense and other products without really thinking about it, bowed to the pressure to have the newest stuff, and more stuff. Impulse buying. And not telling our partners. Hiding the costs.
Email us if you want to share a few embarrassing moments here, anonymously: crownlessprincesses@protonmail.com
#LipSense #SeneGence #embarrassed #MLM #antiMLMmovement #cult #influence
Top photo by Dmitry Ratushny on Unsplash
I signed up for SeneGence around February 2017, right in the thick of the Out Of Stock (OOS) Apocalypse. I signed up under a local woman I befriended. I’d been wanting to help my husband out a bit by taking the financial load off his shoulders and possibly “going back to school” with some online courses. I was excited at first. I paid my $55 (ie over $60 after S&H and taxes), joined every Facebook distributor group I could, listened to my upline for guidance and listened to and observed from other distributors because I was the new kid and they obviously knew more than I did about how these things run, right?
When I signed up, my upline kind of but not really made me aware of how dire OSS was. She flashed me her phone, showed me all the stuff that was OSS, but reassured me that there was plenty of LipSense to get me started with, and I needed to order right away. Order business cards. Order packaging. Start a group. Plan a party. Indiscriminately add friends to it because if they wanted to leave and not support me, they would, and friends that wanted to see me succeed would stick around.
Recruit recruit recruit. Sell sell sell. Party party party.
(Even as I’m writing my blood is boiling to think of how I got suckered into this mess, despite being such a cautious person.)
I listened to her because I thought we were friends. I listened to the group chatter when things were really bad and NOTHING was in stock but skin care products no one cared about because all we’re ever told is “Our lipstick is the best and it sells itself”. Hint: it doesn’t sell itself.
I continued to listen. I continued to front load when I had no money to do it with. Another reason I started this was to help with debts, not add to them! But over and over again I read “front load” from uplines that we as newbies are supposed to be able to trust and look to for guidance. I read so many stay positive, God’s got this type things. I’m a follower, but I have a hard time believing God is in something that felt so off for me.
This went on for months. I’d feel discouraged about why I did this in the first place and I’d consult with my upline, she’d give me a generic pep talk and ask a lot of questions about why I started this to begin with, building a business, etc. All I wanted to do was pay some bills and maybe further my education! Not build an empire!
Over time I realized how I’d been used. That alone made me mad, but what made me even angrier is that I didn’t even see it coming.
There’s two kinds of distributors: ones that just sell product, and ones that sell possibilities. The ones that sell possibilities build big teams, get big commissions off those big teams, and give them the cheery pep talks when there’s an impending mutiny because nothing is in stock. Those are the ones who were sickengly positive all the time, discouraging any sort of questioning the situation and squashing it as “negativity” and “if you aren’t succeeding, you aren’t working hard enough” which is utter and total bullshit. I realized it too late after I’d spent hundreds if not a few thousand trying to stick it out, keep positive, and “girl boss” my way out of a bad situation.
It’s so easy to fall for the tactics. I really do like the lipstick but the pitches I was advised to give to sell product never felt genuine. I felt like I was misleading everyone when I tried to sell a whole overpriced kit when you don’t even really need the remover (it tastes awful anyway), or to act super pumped for a product that I hated or didn’t work (looking at you, mascara and lip volumizer).
I lasted about four months before I jumped ship. I was not happy doing this business. I wasn’t excited. I was super jaded about the company and their shadiness, their misleading methods of selling product, the distributors chugging that SeneBlue Kool-Aid and trying to get others to shut up and chug it, too. I got so sick of it all and was really depressed for a while because I felt like a failure.
I sold off what I could in a final going out of business (GOOB) sale, and sent the rest back to the company. I got reimbursed, not fully, but enough. I feel burned by someone I trusted, too. I really felt like she knew how bad it was and glossed over it to get me to sign up. She was really convincing and reassuring, and I totally fell for it like a complete sucker. I doubt she’s going to pay me for my extra leftovers I gave her, too.
I know not everyone’s experience was like mine. I should have known better, should have trusted my gut about this company and MLMs, but I was pulled in by playing to my best intentions.
Moral of the story: if it doesn’t make you happy to do, don’t do it. And don’t fall for pushy sales tactics, no matter who they’re coming from.
I will never, ever do an MLM again. I’d sell a kidney if I needed money that badly.
— Jaded And Not Blue
#SeneGence #LipSense #frontloading #outofstock #cult #MLM #antiMLMmovement #truestory
Photo by Tyler McRobert on Unsplash
Photo by María Victoria Heredia Reyes on Unsplash
Hello Anti-MLM world! For purposes of the blog, you can call me MaidenDisenchanted.
A little bit about myself. I am currently a SeneGence Distributor, disenchanted and maneuvering my way out. I signed up in early 2017 just before everything went out of stock. I tried LipSense in 2016, and immediately fell in love with it (I had used long-wear lipsticks for years and this was the best I had ever experienced). I still love LipSense! But over the course of the last year, I have come to realize that the business opportunity is just bad.
See, I had originally signed up just to get a discount on my own products. I honestly wanted almost every color, and thought signing up was the way to do it. Yet, I still had a “launch party” and invited some friends to try it. And I even sold product at cost to them, because I wasn't going to be doing this as a business (yes ... I know that's against the rules). Well I was honestly floored at how many people wanted LipSense! So, I decided to give the business thing a go (and sell at retail, or only discount up to 15%). And then everything went out of stock.
Photo by Anete Lūsiņa on Unsplash
I had been a demonstrator for another MLM (rubber stamping), about 10 years ago. Their commission was only 20%, so I was thinking I could run my LipSense business the same way (have parties and place orders). And with SeneGence, the commission would be a lot bigger, right? Well … not quite. First, there wasn't enough product to take orders, compile into a party, and order. And wait, if I actually did a party, I was stuck having to give away product for the hostess rewards! My old MLM had a smaller commission, but at least they provided the hostess benefits and everything was generally in stock!
But, I wasn't smart enough at the time I was realizing all of this. I thought that because so many people I knew loved LipSense that it would actually be profitable for me to just buy product and sell it. So I started buying colors, one at a time, as they came in stock. I spent HUNDREDS on shipping costs alone in 2017! But at the same time, I really was selling, and I was selling a LOT! And I ranked up just three months after signing up!
At times I had more Facebook parties than I could keep up with. (My husband came to dread times when I was doing a Facebook party because I would literally disappear. I would be “home” but not really “home.”) So I justified how many orders I was placing because I was genuinely selling at least enough to offset what I was ordering. But then I was also justifying a lot of expenses in materials, mirrors, shelves, brochures, etc. I thought this business would work in the long run. I did vendor events (but I barely broke even on them, and I spent hundreds of dollars in supplies to get ready), only to decide I didn't really like spending all day on a weekend away from my family. Vendor events were way outside my comfort zone.
I had an active Facebook group (and I spent WAY too much time on it!), and I was introduced to people I would have never met otherwise. Some of these women have become close friends, and I am grateful that I didn't run my business in a way that people felt “sold” every time they talked to me. I really kept my personal life and “SeneLife” separate for the most part.
Photo by rawpixel.com on Unsplash
However, it was not until I started compiling my records to do my taxes that I realized what the real damage was. See, first I was getting things like my 1099 from SeneGence and my credit card processors. I realized that I had moved over $12K last year and I thought that was amazing! Until I saw that I had spent closer to $20K in product orders, supplies, and shipping etc. And SeneGence doesn't make it easy for you to track how much you ordered. Yes, it's all there, but if you want to total it out … you've got to do that yourself. I had about $3K in inventory left at the end of 2017. It was eye opening to realize I had given away so much product in giveaways and incentives. I had often done free shipping and no tax, so I was eating a lot of costs. There was literally NO PROFIT, even though I moved THOUSANDS of dollars in product.
Prior to seeing the exact numbers in my tax documents, I had already begun seeing large numbers of distributors going out of business. In many cases, these distributors had bought more than I had, and for the same reasons. When nothing was in stock, you bought what you could, when you could. And many of these distributors were realizing that inventory left over at the end of the year is taxed as an ASSET and isn't deducted from your income. So they were having to pay taxes on the product they overbought! I was seeing GOOB (going out of business) posts in groups on Facebook selling product cheaper than I could buy it directly from SeneGence. I was really concerned that so many had overextended themselves, and then I started feeling like a jerk keeping these deals from my own customers and expecting them to pay more from me.
And then I started seeing the posts in my team group pages that were encouraging FRONT LOADING* every month.
I ran across a two-part video of a leadership training by none other than Joni Rogers, the Founder and CEO of SeneGence:
It was EYE OPENING. For one, Joni mentions in the first part that not building inventory (front loading) is “Hold[ing] back [your] opportunity to sell.” Seriously!?? Taking on more inventory than you can sell is just putting yourself in debt, or spending money that could go ANYWHERE else. If product had been in stock, I want to say I would have not stocked up as I did. But then again, this is where the SeneGence compensation plan manipulates you to buy more. Remember, in order to get 50% off, you have to order $1,500 in retail product! To get 40% off you have to order $600. And pay sales tax on the retail value!
In the end of Part 2, she refers to a woman with a $100K budget of her husband's money as “Ms. Rocks-a-lot.” (I guess this was me.) It really showed me what SeneGence really thinks of its distributors. They are dollar signs, plain and simple. The entire premise of Joni's method of encouraging inventory and budgeting it is an assumption that EVERY booking will net $500 in sales. This has been proven to be false. (Yes, I had some parties get way over $500, but I had others that barely qualified at $150.) Plus, with market overflow as we currently are experiencing (and so many going out of business—understandably), I feel it is absolutely dishonest that Joni is encouraging Crown Princesses to use this dishonest method of accounting to their new recruits.
And then I saw these types of graphics flowing down from the Amethyst Queen (or Ruby Queen? I can't keep track) way above me.
I mean, really?! There is so much in this post that is misleading. The assumptions in the numbers here are that every person who signs up will spend 300PV every month ($600 retail at 40% off). This is simply not true, especially for those of us who got wise as to how much we were ordering.
Additionally, when I was doing two Facebook parties in a week, I was spending multiple hours every night in that week to prepare and engage in those parties! And I sponsored only ONE person EVER as a result of a party. Granted, I have never been a fan of MLM pyramid style compensation, so recruitment was never a priority for me. The only people who signed up with me were people who came to me asking about it and wanting to do it. And I have never encouraged any of my team to keep inventory or recruit. And, I was mistaken to believe an income could be had by selling LipSense alone.
What I have referenced above is only a drop in the big fat bucket of misleading information flowing down the ranks of SeneGence distributors. And there is absolutely no forum to question any of the Kool-Aid in team Facebook groups. I have been called out for being negative, just because I questioned the numbers in posts like the one above. I thought by openly questioning them, perhaps other distributors could avoid making the same mistakes as so many of us.
So, I am leaving SeneGence. I am lucky to be one of the few that didn't take on tons of debt, but I spent money that could have taken my entire family on a cruise! It makes me sick to think about that. I am trying to figure out how to get rid of my inventory. I love the products … guess I could have a 10 year supply … if it actually is any good after that long.
And if this post helps someone avoid making the same mistakes I did, then it has been worth it. Even if you want to stay with SeneGence, please read the above, get all the information, keep detailed and accurate records, and DON'T DRINK THE KOOL-AID!!
— MaidenDisenchanted
#SeneGence #LipSense #frontloading #inventory #MLM #antiMLMmovement #antiMLM #pyramidscheme
Honestly, guys. HONESTLY. Have you learned nothing from the Stock Photo Debacle of 2017?
Photoshopped lipstick, yet again!
This. Is. A. Stock. Photo. It is not a genuine photo of these new LipSense colors in use.
This is a photo from iStock. We're not lying, joking, or doctoring anything here. Click here to go to its page on iStockphoto.com.
And this is the post that SeneGence put up on its Facebook Page on 4 March 2018:
Headdesk.
#SeneGence #LipSense #MLM #antiMLMmovement #antiMLMCoalition #deceptiveadvertising
What does this mean?
If you're a SeneGence LipSense distributor, and happen to have a downline (people who have signed up under you), and they purchase products from SeneGence — woo hoo! You get a commission! Actual money!
(Photo by Sharon McCutcheon on Unsplash)
BUT! (You knew there was a but, didn't you?)
To be paid this commission — to 'play' — you have to place an order with SeneGence that same month.
And it's not even 'Buy something, get the full amount owing to you'. Oh no. It's much more complicated and nasty than that.
This is easier with an example. Let's say your downline, Lisa, places a nice juicy order, that's worth 800 PV.
Note well — commissions are only paid on items that attract Points Value (PV) — various things like makeup applicators, stickers, bags, testers and other supplies do not earn PV. So if Lisa is ordering heaps of non-PV stuff, you'll earn nothing on that part of her order. Commission is not based on the amount of money spent, but the PV of the order/s of that month.
OK. So Lisa's bought heaps of stock that is worth 800 PV. And you've potentially earned $80 commission (10% of the 800 PV). Woo hoo!
Now, if you want to earn the first $10 (yes, TEN DOLLARS) of the commission value (CV) owing to you, you need to place a 100 PV order that month too, which you'll hit if you buy eight tubes of LipSense. This is pay to play — if you want to 'play' (earn commissions etc), you have to pay.
This will cost you well over $100, depending on which country you're in. A 100 PV order is $200 USD, at 30% off. So that's $140. Now add on their over-priced shipping & handling fees. So it might be more like $160 all together.
(From the Distributor Compensation Plan)
BUT, if you'd like the rest of the commission owing to you, that $70 (Lisa's $80 – $10), you have to have ordered 300 PV over the month to 'qualify' (and the proviso about products that attract PV applies here too — you can't stock up on applicators, testers and supplies to do this).
A 300 PV order is expensive. It's $600, with a 40% discount — so you'll be roughly $360 out of pocket. And that's a lot more stock to sell (or pile up in your house).
This 'remainder of what's owing to you' is called the Group Sales Volume (GSV) Bonus. It's very complicated, hard to understand (intentionally), and there are other ways of achieving it, which involve having a big downline etc. We're trying to keep it simpler here, so we all have some chance of understanding it. You can see a PDF about it in more detail here.).
So, to get the full commission owing to you from Lisa — the initial $10, plus the remaining GSV of $70 ($80 total), you will have to have ordered at least $600 worth of stock (costing $360 USD, when the 40% discount is taken into account). Add on shipping & handling.
To earn that $80 from Lisa, you've just spent more than $360.
If your downline commission is less than the amount you have to pay to earn it, you're actually going backwards financially. Sure, you've got more stock, and maybe you're selling $600 worth of product every month ... but most don't.
Guess who wins this particular game (hint it ain't you).
Unless! Unless you're recruiting heaps of downlines, and they're building THEIR downlines, and so on. In which case, you can make an income. Maybe.
And it's not just commissions where SeneGence gets you to pay to play. This is just the tip of a most expensive iceberg.
MLM Attorney: Required Purchases, the MLM Pay to Play Dilemma
MLM — The Truth: Red Flag #3: Pay to play purchases
MLM Legal: What does the phrase “pay to play” mean?
#paytoplay #SeneGence #LipSense #MLM #pyramidscheme #antiMLMmovement
We're very pleased to announce that The Anti-MLM Coalition is up and running — an international group of writers who are working to explain and expose the practices and abuses of multi-level marketing companies. We Crownless Princesses are proud to be a part of the group. You can also find us on Twitter and Facebook.
The website is a collection of all the anti-MLM resources we can find, with feeds from a ton of blogs, as well as new content written by our members, allies, and guest writers. If you're interested in sharing your story, use the contact form on the site, and someone in the team will be in touch.
#SeneGence #LipSense #antiMLMmovement #MLM #scams #pyramidscheme
We are joining forces with the Anti-MLM Coalition, a new international group that is pooling resources. Stay tuned for more info and links soon!
#antiMLM #antiMLMmovement #SeneGence #LipSense #MLMactivism #MLM